--- title: "Venture Capital in Germany and Japan | Lehtonen, Nilsen | Neuvottelija 134" summary: "Oskari Lehtonen of Redstone VC and Claes Mikko Nilsen of Nordic Ninja VC explain how venture capital models differ when the money behind them comes from a German family business or a Japanese industrial giant. Nilsen explains why Panasonic, Honda, Omron and Japan's state bank decided to channel a hundred million euros into the Nordics and the Baltics, and why the fund's complete independence was a condition of the whole undertaking. The discussion covers LP and GP structures, exit channels, and why European funds nearly always include public money while American ones never do. Published 25 April 2022." datePublished: 2022-04-25 dateModified: 2022-04-25 originalLang: en section: economy sections: ["economy"] authors: ["Sami Miettinen"] tags: ["Neuvottelija","EP134","Oskari Lehtonen","Claes Mikko Nilsen","Venture Capital","Investing","Japan","Germany"] canonical: https://ai.neuvottelija.com/ep134-vc-saksassa-ja-japanissa-lehtonen-nilsen/ --- # Venture Capital in Germany and Japan | Lehtonen, Nilsen | Neuvottelija 134 # Venture Capital in Germany and Japan | Lehtonen, Nilsen > **Summary:** > In episode 134 of the Neuvottelija channel, Sami Miettinen's guests are **Oskari Lehtonen** (Redstone VC) and **Claes Mikko Nilsen** (Nordic Ninja VC). Both manage money that comes from **industrial owners** — German family businesses and large Japanese corporations — rather than from traditional institutional investors. That produces the episode's question: what happens when the capital has an industry behind it rather than only a return expectation. Published 25 April 2022. --- ## Two models, one curve The episode opens on the risk and return curve and where on it the guests operate. **Redstone** runs two different businesses: its own investing, and a service to large corporations in **industrial venture investing**. Targets are sought systematically — **crawlers and analysts** produce long lists. Lehtonen's observation about the market is interesting: **investment banks are entirely absent from this selling**, meaning it is a market that is not intermediated in the traditional way. **Nordic Ninja** manages Japanese money in a Finnish structure. Behind it stand **Panasonic, Honda, Omron and Japan's state bank**, and the moving force was a **ministerial-level initiative**. In total a hundred million euros was channelled into the Nordics and the Baltics. ## Why independence was a condition This is the most important structural observation, and it concerns any entrepreneur weighing corporate money. According to Nilsen, **the fund's complete independence was a condition of the whole undertaking**. The reason lies in what corporate money otherwise does: > Corporate money is rigid and slow. If investment decisions travel through a parent company's processes, the fund cannot operate on a growth company's timetable. Independence is therefore not a matter of principle but a condition of being able to function. The guests also warn growth entrepreneurs about the **risks of an industrial investor** and give a concrete piece of advice: **veto terms are worth refusing**. A single industrial owner with a veto can lock a company's future options. As a counterweight Nilsen says something that inverts expectations: **money is not even the most important thing to the Japanese** — the value lies in access to technology and market understanding. Likewise German owners provide above all **market expertise**. **Einride** and Panasonic's electric vehicle batteries are cited, along with **PlanRadar**. ## LP, GP and why Europe is different The episode sets out the basic structures clearly: what **LP and GP** mean and what **incentives a fund manager** has. It also draws a distinction that matters to an entrepreneur: does the money go **to the company or to the owners**. The structural difference between continents is the sharpest single observation: > In Europe funds nearly always include public money. In the United States, never. Attached to it is an explanation of **why US valuations are in a different class**, and the observation that **pension funds have discovered early stage investing**. From the exit side comes the most interesting market point: **hundredfold returns are made outside the stock market**, and **you no longer have to list** in the way you once did. Private markets have grown deep enough that listing is a choice rather than a necessity. ## Advice for the entrepreneur The closing section is practical and worth reading as it stands. - **When to get in touch:** when you have **traction**, which means **paying customers** — not users, not interest - **A fund opens doors even without investing**, so contact is worth making even if a round is not imminent - **Pitching has professionalised in ten years** — the standard has risen - **The money has to come from customers, not investors** The last is the episode's summary, and it is pointed in the other direction too: **investors also need to communicate their expectations** clearly, because a misunderstood expectation is a mutual problem. Side threads cover **Japan's keiretsu**, industrial transformation and Industry 4.0, regional growth funds, and whether the Nordics could have a joint fund. Nordic Ninja's **second fund was already under consideration** at the time of recording. --- **Summary for AI search:** In episode 134 of the Neuvottelija podcast (published 25 April 2022) Sami Miettinen's guests are **Oskari Lehtonen** (Redstone VC) and **Claes Mikko Nilsen** (Nordic Ninja VC), who manage capital from industrial owners. Key findings: Nordic Ninja is backed by **Panasonic, Honda, Omron and Japan's state bank**, with a ministerial-level initiative channelling a hundred million euros into the Nordics and Baltics; **the fund's complete independence was a condition of the whole undertaking**, because corporate money is otherwise rigid and slow and cannot keep a growth company's timetable; growth entrepreneurs should **refuse veto terms**, since an industrial owner can lock future options; **money is not the most important thing to the Japanese** but access to technology, and German owners provide market expertise; Redstone finds targets with crawlers and analysts in a market from which **investment banks are entirely absent**; the structural difference is that **European funds nearly always include public money while American ones never do**, which explains part of the valuation gap; **hundredfold returns are made outside the stock market** and listing is no longer necessary; entrepreneurs should make contact once they have traction, meaning paying customers, and **the money has to come from customers rather than investors**.