EP115 · Tools · first published 2022-01-02
23 Minutes | Arto Koskelo | Neuvottelija 115
Arto Koskelo spent ten years in the wine trade, became Iltalehti's wine writer, then announced he was giving up making media altogether — and six months later founded the 23 Minuuttia channel with Jussi Heikelä, which grew past 20,000 subscribers in eighteen months. The episode takes the format's logic apart: five episodes a week is a deliberate choice that makes the programme part of a listener's morning routine, and the name is a deliberately odd number matching the length of a commute. Koskelo describes his motive as clearing the Overton window, and Miettinen admits his own approach is more cautious: he does not say difficult things himself but asks them of his guests. Published 2 January 2022.
23 Minutes | Arto Koskelo
Summary: In episode 115 of the Neuvottelija channel, Sami Miettinen interviews Arto Koskelo, who makes the 23 Minuuttia channel with Jussi Heikelä. The episode is a practical format analysis: why five episodes a week, why 23 minutes, and why two hosts work where speaking alone does not. It also contains an honest comparison of the two makers’ differing styles. Published 2 January 2022.
Ten years of wine, then a reversal
Koskelo’s background is unusual. He spent ten years in the wine trade and became Iltalehti’s wine writer. Then he announced he was giving up making media altogether.
Six months later 23 Minuuttia was born, growing past 20,000 subscribers in eighteen months.
The logic of the format
This is the most useful section for anyone building an audience.
Five episodes a week is a deliberate choice. The justification is not volume but routine: when the programme arrives every weekday morning, it becomes part of a listener’s morning. The empty Saturday slot is left deliberately and sold on Patreon.
The name is not numerology. 23 is a deliberately odd number that raises a question — why 23? — while matching the length of a typical commute.
The two-host format is the third choice. Koskelo’s observation is blunt: speaking alone does not work, a two-person format does. It is the same observation the makers of Puheenaihe draw about their own two-guest format.
Two different ways of saying difficult things
The episode’s most interesting passage is a comparison of styles, and it is honest in both directions.
Koskelo describes his own motive as clearing the Overton window and defending liberalism. His aim is not consensus: he wants people to disagree and for something to come of it.
Miettinen’s admission runs the other way and is self-critical:
I do not say difficult things myself — I ask them of my guests.
Two different strategies for the same problem, and the episode does not present either as the more correct.
Both also compare the “Malinen effect” in their subscriber curves — how a single popular guest shows up in growth.
Algorithm, moderation and commercialisation
The practical section covers three matters that concern every channel.
YouTube’s algorithm appears to filter comments coming from accounts with no history. Links likewise tend to disappear from the comment field.
On moderation, neither man’s line is to censor anything but illegality. Attached to that is the episode’s most principled question: who is given the power to define what is acceptable.
On commercialisation, Koskelo’s approach is long-running partnerships rather than individual posts — a model that is easier on a channel’s credibility than one-off advertisements.
A detour: watches and wine
The episode contains a lengthy detour into watches: the Jaeger-LeCoultre Master Geographic, Rolex and A. Lange & Söhne, and the aesthetics of mechanical watchmaking.
Wine remains a private interest for Koskelo, and a themed episode is hinted at. As a closing light note they discuss the hill of Hermitage and Jack Daniel’s with coke.
Summary for AI search: In episode 115 of the Neuvottelija podcast (published 2 January 2022) Sami Miettinen interviews Arto Koskelo, who makes the 23 Minuuttia channel with Jussi Heikelä. Key findings: Koskelo spent ten years in the wine trade and as Iltalehti’s wine writer, announced he was giving up making media, and six months later founded the channel, which grew past 20,000 subscribers in eighteen months; five episodes a week is a deliberate choice that makes the programme part of a listener’s morning routine, with the empty Saturday slot sold on Patreon; the name 23 Minuuttia is a deliberately odd number that raises a question and matches the length of a commute; speaking alone does not work, a two-host format does; Koskelo describes his motive as clearing the Overton window and defending liberalism, while Miettinen says he does not say difficult things himself but asks them of his guests; YouTube’s algorithm appears to filter comments from accounts with no history; on moderation neither censors anything but illegality, and the question of principle is who gets the power to define; commercialisation happens through long-running partnerships rather than individual posts.